tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post694907891117473266..comments2023-05-21T11:16:01.753-04:00Comments on Chloe, the Pony Who Wouldn't: BuckJunehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-15476600611233658422013-04-15T20:45:55.886-04:002013-04-15T20:45:55.886-04:00Charlotte, I think you're right on in your (ps...Charlotte, I think you're right on in your (psycho)analysis and that your comment about Buck seeing his father and not his own boyhood self in the horse is very astute. <br /><br />You know, I really wonder if that horse even knew he wasn't supposed to bite anyone. I wonder if anyone had taken the time to actually tell him, as opposed to freaking out whenever he did.<br /><br />I've done a little Googling about the colt myself, and as far as I can tell, the horse was never euthanized but continued to live a wild and untrammeled existence, impregnating mares to his heart's content and perpetuating his high-octane genes. I wonder if anyone can corroborate this for me?!? Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-59305895616549154422013-04-15T19:38:39.664-04:002013-04-15T19:38:39.664-04:00June I just watched the movie. I found the scenes ...June I just watched the movie. I found the scenes with the colt unnerving, and I too watched them again and again. wanting to see what others thought, I did some searching on the web and came across your blog. Thank you for your perceptive analysis, especially your insight that Buck, for all his kindness, is unable to see something in the horse, perhaps because he can't see it in himself. I think - and this may sound overly psychoanalytical but here goes - that if Buck had seen his boyhood self and not his father in that horse, he would have handled him differently. Charlottenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-2855319221912445522012-12-17T12:11:42.157-05:002012-12-17T12:11:42.157-05:00Hi, Sana - thanks for reading and commenting. I lo...Hi, Sana - thanks for reading and commenting. I looked at your blog - what makes you pick the movies you have there? Did you write the reviews?Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-82738959004822872602012-03-08T16:19:20.523-05:002012-03-08T16:19:20.523-05:00Gosh, Tara, what a fascinating story! Hey, everybo...Gosh, Tara, what a fascinating story! Hey, everybody! You gotta check out Tara's site!<br /><br />Thanks for visiting my blog, Tara.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-46520293992730289882012-03-08T11:02:57.540-05:002012-03-08T11:02:57.540-05:00Interesting viewpoint. Very well thought out. I mu...Interesting viewpoint. Very well thought out. I must say, though, my horse is an orphan that I raised from birth. He was turned out with a miniature horse mare, never bullied by other horses. He still loves his mini "Mom". I can do anything with him...he will trail ride all day, loads, clips, bathes...even my children groom and love on him despite his size of 18hh (yes, he is taller than my neighbors Clydesdales.) Yet, when pushed to do something he doesn't want to, he shows a similar reaction to the horse in the video...just minus the mean. Ollie thinks differently than other horses. I have trained horses for 25 years, and he just is a different story. You can read his whole story at www.jabaridressage.com. Not pushing my site except that maybe people can learn. I don't ask for money, or sell space on my site. BTW: I am 6 feet tall, so no comments about how he is not possibly 18hh. I make every horse look smaller.Tarahttp://www.jabaridressage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-32707591037238699242011-11-16T23:10:28.986-05:002011-11-16T23:10:28.986-05:00Smazourek - yes, really, I mean who could justify ...Smazourek - yes, really, I mean who could justify the risk, time, and effort it would take to rehab that horse? I couldn't see myself doing it. I've been bitten by a horse far less aggressive than that one for making what was a mistake, but really I couldn't have known it was a mistake until after I'd made it. And with that colt - sheesh! talk about lightning retribution - you'd definitely be learning from your mistakes (and attendant injuries) after they happened, rather than avoiding them in the first place.<br /><br />BUT I really wish each and every horse could be treated as if it were the only horse in someone's life, and given every possible chance.. and I wish that colt had had a chance to be worked at a distance.<br /><br />By the way, I wonder what Hempfling "type" he was - can anyone tell? I know there are a couple of types KFH says can become very dangerous if they take a wrong turning. I gave away my book, and now I must ask for another copy for Christmas!Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-85887917965872768392011-11-16T16:39:35.052-05:002011-11-16T16:39:35.052-05:00OK, I've been re-watching the fateful scenes o...OK, I've been re-watching the fateful scenes on the movie. When Buck is in the pen by the barn with the colt, Buck's demeanor is not particularly aggressive, but the colt shows no aggression until Buck raises the stick, at which point the colt becomes tense. He doesn't start his attack until after the first flap of the flag-stick can be heard.<br /><br />I wish I could watch it in slow motion, but this time when going over the cowboy in the round pen scene, I could see the horse start to warn. The cowboy continues to advance, and then the horse attacks. Trouble is all this happens much faster than any human could perceive.<br /><br />The horse also lunges to attack random passers by over the fence. Which is something George used to do apparently. My friend who had him before me kept him in a large arena for a couple of weeks and would go in and chase him around and not let him near her, until finally he seemed to be willing to move without resentment and would turn to look at her, ready to move if she asked him.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-8682485525179551892011-11-16T14:58:44.001-05:002011-11-16T14:58:44.001-05:00Question (talking of medical care, Fetlock) - didn...Question (talking of medical care, Fetlock) - didn't the colt have to have a Coggins test done before going to the clinic? Also vaccinations?Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-46650297055981437352011-11-16T14:34:41.530-05:002011-11-16T14:34:41.530-05:00The movie tells us that the colt had been living, ...The movie tells us that the colt had been living, unhandled, in a field with 18 other studs. !!! So although he hadn't been abused, his experience of life was probably very weird, to say the least. I need to go back and re-watch some of the scenes, but he does have a kind of blank look on his face. I think he was probably a horse who was wired pretty tight to begin with, then couple that with fending for himself as a baby, lack of handling, testosterone galore, and then being confronted by a crazy, confusing situation at the clinic - kind of a recipe for disaster. KFH has a great phrase - "everyday chaos accumulates to high danger"<br /><br />I am rather puzzled by the close-contact handling that they relied on with this colt - if ever a horse needed to be worked with from a distance, this was it.<br /><br />Also - as regards the cowboy mentality, which can be awesome actually, and I've seen cowboys do amazing things with great calmness and presence - I get the impression that standing down and backing off from an aggressive horse is probably not something they do a lot. But KFH employs that tactic, and it works very well for him. In the movie, you can see the colt demonstrate it beautifully - he backs up and stands alert and still, looking for all the world like KFH himself. What does the cowboy do? Like I said before, he creeps up on the horse for all the world like a cougar about to attack. <br /><br />Standing down and backing off are not the same as retreating of course.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-47611123753793968672011-11-16T13:18:11.707-05:002011-11-16T13:18:11.707-05:00I've seen a friend try to rehab a gelding that...I've seen a friend try to rehab a gelding that acted a lot like the one in the movie, and that horse had to be put down, too. He hadn't been abused, but it was another horse that had a traumatic birth and possible brain damage. His behavior had grown steadily worse as he'd gotten older. <br /><br />One of the worst things about some of these horses with mental issues is that they don't "make sense." They might give "normal horse" submissive signals like licking and chewing--but then suddenly attack. <br /><br />When I was around the gelding I'm talking about (at a safe distance outside his pen) the horrible blankness in his eye as he threw his body against the fence at me was as clear as day. It was as if he didn't even know what he was doing, or why. That was the scariest thing I've ever seen coming from a horse. There simply wasn't any 'intent.' It reminded me of the things I've seen a mentally ill relative doing. Completely purposeless behavior.<br /><br />I remember being impressed with Buck's comment in the movie about how only the one cowboy was allowed to ride the horse--he recognized the horse would not be able to "generalize" between humans. People like me also have a hard time understanding the "cowboy" mentality--meaning a horse must be ridden/used--but that is why most people have horses, and that's why trainers make their money. <br /><br />I completely agree with your comment about 'sparkly-eyed engagement' (what a great phrase!) and I also wish I could see more of that in the horses I've watched people ride. And I also agree that was an incredible disservice to the colt to try to ride him during a weekend clinic. <br /><br />I think horse lovers tend to be perpetual optimists about horses (you have to be, really) but we have to remember that horses who are dangerous to humans--whether it's caused by mental illness or poor handling or both--won't even get the medical and hoof care they need (much less be ridden).<br /><br />It's too bad he didn't have a shot at coming to live at your place, where he might have had a chance at a happy life.Captain Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09294085455860971795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-14277466411535136812011-11-16T10:52:54.315-05:002011-11-16T10:52:54.315-05:00Ultimately I think that euthanizing that horse was...Ultimately I think that euthanizing that horse was the right decision. Yes, there are people in this world that could have worked with him, but would they have had the time or inclination to do it? What the owner said about putting him down so that nobody tried 2x4 "therapy" (paraphrasing) on him was, to me, the most honest statement she'd given the whole time. Because odds are he'd be WAY more likely to run into one of those than the KFH type and that wouldn't have been fair to the horse at all.<br /><br />(Oh, and Dave, the assistant? Terrible judge of horse body language, why would he turn his back on that horse TWICE?)<br /><br />As Buck said, "the human failed that horse," it was up to the human to make sure the horse didn't continue to suffer because of her mistakes.<br /><br />I'll have to watch that clip again- I didn't see that horse waving a white flag, but it's worth another look. I'm also intrigued by your theory about turning him out to fend for himself against the big boys making him so aggressive. Seems plausible.smazourekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029180368325070266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-46951607692692563542011-11-16T07:25:10.498-05:002011-11-16T07:25:10.498-05:00I'm sure Buck himself isn't surprised to f...I'm sure Buck himself isn't surprised to find he has limitations! Cos among his virtues he seems like a real unassuming guy.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-28156036547433196442011-11-16T07:24:05.530-05:002011-11-16T07:24:05.530-05:00Kate, when you say "aggressive imprinting,&qu...Kate, when you say "aggressive imprinting," what do you mean? Are you talking about when people do "imprinting" with foals?<br /><br />It always makes one stop short when someone as great as Buck shows that they have limitations - I guess it's a reminder that we can't always pass off life's most important decisions to the experts.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-50518205713791579392011-11-16T06:53:27.874-05:002011-11-16T06:53:27.874-05:00It is sad to see that glimmer of possible hope in ...It is sad to see that glimmer of possible hope in an otherwise desperate situation . . . but a hope that isn't/can't be realized. And Buck isn't perfect - no one, no matter how good with horses, is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-54362589290460485982011-11-15T23:42:07.110-05:002011-11-15T23:42:07.110-05:00Yes, I agree, it wasn't necessarily a bad deci...Yes, I agree, it wasn't necessarily a bad decision - I certainly personally wouldn't be willing to take on such a horse in order to save it from being killed. And I certainly don't judge Buck for quitting while he was ahead (i.e. still alive).<br /><br />But .... for the horse to stand down in front of the cowboy, only to have the cowboy advance menacingly toward him, it must have been confusing. Similarly when the horse approaches waving a white flag, only to have Buck snap around and attack it - again, confusing for the horse.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-78827237827903819732011-11-15T18:57:14.224-05:002011-11-15T18:57:14.224-05:00Buck is probably a master - I've never seen hi...Buck is probably a master - I've never seen him work in person and can't personally say, and haven't seen the film. But even masters sometimes can't do everything right. Extremely aggressive horses can be very dangerous and this horse may have been too far gone to be saved. Mark's old man might have been able to do it, and perhaps Mark would have as well (although he's not easy on aggressive horses) - disclaimer - I've worked extensively with Mark. <br /><br />My daughter worked with a mare for more than a year that was on the way to slaughter due to extreme aggression against humans, including treatment for ulcers, chiropractic and dental work - they made progress but ultimately the horse could only work with her -no one else, it couldn't generalize - and the horse's behavior eventually reverted and the horse had to be euthanized for the safety of everyone around it. Could a super-master have saved this horse - maybe and maybe not. We think the horse may have had a neurological/processing problem - we knew the horse's history and it hadn't been abused - and part of the problem may have been due to aggressive imprinting - this leads to a lot of issues in my experience - there's a combination of sensory flooding/shutting down which can be very counterproductive.<br /><br />Anyway, long comment to say that I'm not in a position to judge what Buck did or didn't do, but that very aggressive horses can be extremely dangerous and erring on the side of protecting people isn't necessarily a bad decision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3300955165918958606.post-7270731956142945102011-11-15T16:46:38.354-05:002011-11-15T16:46:38.354-05:00June I must try and watch that movie. I like what...June I must try and watch that movie. I like what you say about any one method coming up against a situation where it is not the best method.Máirehttp://poniesathome.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com